Talk:Vertical Drum Hemp Harvester

Part number 1 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

• Anschließend werden Informationen über den Hydraulikkolben sowie andere verwandte Teile und Bereiche benötigt.

Part number 1 -- Inddigital (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2023 (CET)

Entwurf aus den verfügbaren Informationen, zur Überprüfung, Korrektur und Klarstellung (Weitere Details finden Sie im Abschnitt PDF-Zeichnungen)

Part number 1.1 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

Part number 1.1 -- Inddigital (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2023 (CET)

Entwurf aus den verfügbaren Informationen, zur Überprüfung, Korrektur und Klarstellung (Weitere Details finden Sie im Abschnitt PDF-Zeichnungen)

Part number 1.1.1 -- Inddigital (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2023 (CET)

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Part number 1.2 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

Part number 1.2 -- Inddigital (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2023 (CET)

• Entwurf aus den verfügbaren Informationen, zur Überprüfung, Korrektur und Klarstellung (Weitere Details finden Sie im Abschnitt PDF-Zeichnungen)

• Für diese Montage wurden die Bilder analysiert, wobei die Eisenplatten entsprechend den beobachteten Schweißlinien und Biegungen getrennt wurden:

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Part number 1.5 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

Part number 1.5 -- Inddigital (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2023 (CET)

Entwurf aus den verfügbaren Informationen, zur Überprüfung, Korrektur und Klarstellung (Weitere Details finden Sie im Abschnitt PDF-Zeichnungen)

In diesem Satz wurden die Artikulationsachsen entsprechend den anderen beobachteten Achsen hinzugefügt.

Part number 1.5.1 -- Inddigital (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2023 (CET)

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Part number 1.11 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

Part number 1.11 -- Inddigital (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2023 (CET)

• Entwurf aus den verfügbaren Informationen, zur Überprüfung, Korrektur und Klarstellung (Weitere Details finden Sie im Abschnitt PDF-Zeichnungen)

• Dieses Stück scheint weniger groß zu sein, als im Text angegeben:

Part number 1.11.1 -- Inddigital (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2023 (CET)

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Part number 2.8 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

Wichtig!
Anscheinend wurde dieses Design irgendwann geändert. Die zwei vorhandene Maschinen verfügen über zwei Laufrolle in diesem Position (8), die an inneren und außeren Seiten einer einzelne Kurvenbahn laufen.

Achtung!
Dieses Teil oder Teile dieser Baugruppe sind von dem #Vertikalversatz zwischen den Enizugstrommeln getroffen.

Anscheinend ist dieses Design veraltet

Zwei Laufrollen

Part number 2.9 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

Wichtig!
Anscheinend wurde dieses Design irgendwann geändert. Die Länge und der Durchmesser der Stange (Position 9) sowie die Position in der sie den Querelement trifft müssen festgelegt werden.

Achtung!
Dieses Teil oder Teile dieser Baugruppe sind von dem #Vertikalversatz zwischen den Enizugstrommeln getroffen. Wenigstes zwei Versionen dieses Teil sind in den Mashinen eingebaut.

Part number 2.10 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

Achtung!
Die Tiefe (innen-außen Länge) dieser Zinkenbuchsen sollte untersucht werden, da ab und zu während des Einsatzs rutschen die Zinken aus den Gleitbuschen in innerem Raum der Trommel heraus. Änderungen an diesen Buchsen beeinträchtigen die Zinckengabeln.

Part number 2.11 -- Inddigital (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2023 (CET)

Wichtig!
Anscheinend wurde dieses Design irgendwann geändert. Die Positionen der Gleitbohrungen am Trommelwand sind von diese änderungen getroffen.

Achtung!
Dieses Teil oder Teile dieser Baugruppe sind von dem #Vertikalversatz zwischen den Enizugstrommeln getroffen.

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Part number 1.1 -- Hanffaser (talk) 15:13, 29 June 2023 (CEST)

Subassembly 1.1

Offset

Parts 1.1.7 (roof and floor) are welded off-center to the wall of part 1.1.9 (cylinder). This offset reduces the distance that separate both drums by a total (considering both sides) of around about 50mm.

Here it is worth asking the following question: Is this a design characteristic or is it a correction carried out during the build after somebody considered that the drums were too far apart?

Maybe the angle between the arm that joins part 1.1.9 (cylinder) and parts 1.1.1 and 1.1.2 (plates) worked out to be too large and the easiest way out was to offset 1.1.9

This offset correction might have needed a reduction in length of 1.1.7 which led to the drums being closer to plates 1.1.1 and 1.1.2, resulting in the drums making contact with these parts and in the necessity of grinding/cutting out the corners where all these components meet.

Update on "Offset" - 04 July 2023
Nach Besprechung mit Herrn Nowotny, vorstand der Hanffabrik und mitentwickler der Maschine, wurde festgestellt, dass die im vorigen Abschnitt erwähnte Vermutungen damals tatsächlich der Fall waren. Er meintet dazu, dass der Abstand zwichen beide Trommeln noch geringer sein dürfte, da beim Mähen die Hanfstängel in eine ziemlich dünne Schicht zwischen die Trommeln vorbei gezogen werden.

Folgen
Als Folge der vorherige Anmerkungen kann man einige Sachen in den Zeichnungen schon ändern, damit die Fertigungsverfahren einigermaßen vereinfacht werden kann.

• Teil 1.1.7 (Dach und Boden des Arms) darf symetrisch gestaltet werden, da kein versatz mit dem Cylinder 1.1.9 nötig ist. Anstelle muss man irgenwo anders die Größe eines Winkels ändern.
• Teil 1.1.1 und 1.1.2: Hier muss denn die Winkel der nach vorne ausgerichteten Laschen geänder werden, um der jetzt nicht mehr vorhanden Versatz zwischen 1.1.7 und 1.1.9 auszugleichen. Dazu sollte auch die Breite des Teils 1.1.1 vergrößert, damit 1.1.7 symetrish bleibt. Diese Änderungen sind dank CAD-Software unkompliziert relisierbar.
• Teil 1.1.5 wird auch von diese Änderungen betroffen.

Offset not present and collision poins highlighted

Offset between arm 1.1.7 and cylinder 1.1.9 shown.

Measured offset between center axis of plate 1.1.7 and center of cylinde cap plate 1.1.10

Total offset (320mm) between inner wall surface (plate 1.1.1) of column and center of cylinder 1.1.9

Nicht symetrisches Teil 1.1.7 und versatz mit 1.1.9

Drop Angle

The angle formed between the front wall of the column (plate 1.1.4) and arm (plates 1.1.7 - roof and floor) is lager than 90 degrees. This creates a drop angle towards the front of the machine with a slope gradient of around about 5%. Viewed from either side the arm should look like a parallelogram which keeps the cylinder 1.1.9 in the center of the drum parallel to plate 1.1.4 (front of the column)

It is worth mentioning that the box (arm) formed by plates 1.1.7 and 1.1.8 is horizontally and vertically tapered towards the center of the drum (forward), which means that the angle measured between column and arm is the sum of two angles, namely the drop and the taper angles.

Zwischen Arm und Säule ist der winkel (Fallwinkel) größer als 90°

Slope gradient 1.1.4 to 1.1.9

Part number 1 -- Hanffaser (talk) 15:22, 29 June 2023 (CEST)

Zwei Punkte sind bei dieser Baugruppe hervorzuheben, die für künftige Konstruktionen von Bedeutung sind.

1. Die Teile 1.1.1 und 1.1.2 kollidieren mit der sich drehenden Trommel. Im Moment gibt es keine Hinweise darauf, warum dies der Fall sein könnte. Mögliche Ursachen könnten z. B. in folgenden Bereichen liegen:
   1. -Design: Die Arme sind wahrscheinlich zu kurz und müssen um etwa 20 bis 30 mm verlängert werden, um den gewünschten Abstand zwischen Trommel und Rahmenplatten zu erreichen.
   2. -Design/Bedienung: Die Flexibilität einiger der verwendeten Materialien wurde unterschätzt und die Belastung der Maschine führte dazu, dass sich Teile verbiegen und berühren.
   3. -Konstruktion: Bei der Konstruktion der Maschine wurde ein Fehler gemacht, der dazu führte, dass die Trommeln näher als berechnet an den Hauptrahmenplatten lagen. Dies ist jedoch unwahrscheinlich, da beide verfügbaren Maschinen das gleiche Problem bei den betrachteten Teilen aufweisen.
   4. -Konstruktion: Eine Änderung/Korrektur wurde während der Konstruktion eingefuhrt.

Punkt 3 ist mit höhe warscheinlichkeit der Grund dieses Anliegen. Siehe #Offset

1. Das Teil 1.1.1 (innere Seitenwand der Säule) kollidiert mit dem Verbindungsarm der Unterbaugruppe 1.2, wenn die Trommeln angehoben werden. Dies scheint die Funktion oder den Betrieb der Maschine nicht beeinträchtigt zu haben, aber es hat mit Sicherheit zu einer gewissen Belastung der Struktur geführt, bevor sich die Teile unter den Betätigungskräften verformten. Es sollten einige Änderungen an der Konstruktion vorgenommen werden, damit dies nicht mehr vorkommt.

Kollisionsstelle zwischen Säulenplatten und Trommel

Kollisionsstellen zwischen Säulenplatten und Trommel

Kollisionsstelle zwischen Trommel und Säulenplatten

Kollisionsstelle zwischen Trommel und Säulenplatten

Kollisionsstelle zwichen Unterbaugruppe 1.1 und 1.2

Kollisionsstelle oberer Lenker 1.2 - Säulenplatte 1.1.1

Kollisionsstelle oberer Lenker 1.2 - Säulenplatte 1.1.1

Part number 1.1.1 -- Hanffaser (talk) 08:21, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung
Teil 1.1.1 und 1.1.2 sind fast identisch, da es nur die Breite und der Biegungswinkel sich ändert. Das heißt, dass beim CAD-Konstruktion darf man beide Platten aufeinander legen, um die position aller Löcher und Zuchnitte zu überprüfen.

First observations.

Folgendes Bild stellt nur eine Mögliche Lösung dar, um die Kollision mit dem oberen Lenker (1.2) zu vermeiden, aber der grund dieses Problem könnte eigentlich die Platte 1.2.12 sein, also hier müsste keine Änderung vorgenommen werden.

Mögliche Änderung um die Kollision mit dem oberen Lenker (1.2) zu vermeiden.

Part number 1.1.2 -- Hanffaser (talk) 10:10, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung
Teil 1.1.1 und 1.1.2 sind fast identisch, da es nur die Breite und der Biegungswinkel sich ändert. Das heißt, dass beim CAD-Konstruktion darf man beide Platten aufeinander legen, um die position aller Löcher und Zuchnitte zu überprüfen.

Erste Abmaßenprüfung

Part number 1.1.3 -- Hanffaser (talk) 10:19, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.1.4 -- Hanffaser (talk) 10:23, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Erste Abmaßprüfung. Abschrägung und Winkel sind zu beachten.

Part number 1.1.5 -- Hanffaser (talk) 10:35, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung
Durchgangsbohrungen: 2x17mm

Anmerkung zum künftigen Aufbau: Das befestigungssystem mit dem zwei M16 Gewindestangen ist nicht ideal, da es die Montage und Demontage der Baugruppen schwierig macht.Hier könnte etwas anders gestaltet werden, z.B., Querbolzen.

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.1.6 -- Hanffaser (talk) 10:52, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Anmerkung zum künftigen Aufbau: Das befestigungssystem mit dem zwei M16 Gewindestangen ist nicht ideal, da es die Montage und Demontage der Baugruppen schwierig macht.Hier könnte etwas anders gestaltet werden, z.B., Querbolzen.

Part number 1.1.7 -- Hanffaser (talk) 10:54, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Wichtig!
siehe zuerst Text #Offset beim Teil/Unterbaugruppe 1.1

Dieses Teil bleibt Symetrisch wie in der Zeichnung von OHO v0.01 Die Länge könnte geändert werden.

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Nicht symetrisches Teil 1.1.7 und versatz mit 1.1.9

Part number 1.1.8 -- Hanffaser (talk) 12:33, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Wichtig!
siehe zuerst Text #Drop Angle beim Teil/Unterbaugruppe 1.1

Abschrägung richtung Cylinder 1.1.9

Part number 1.1.14 -- Hanffaser (talk) 12:45, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Das Teil geht die Kurvenbahnplatte durch

Part number 1.2.11 -- Hanffaser (talk) 12:52, 30 June 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.2.1 -- Hanffaser (talk) 13:15, 3 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.2.2 -- Hanffaser (talk) 13:17, 3 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.2.12 -- Hanffaser (talk) 14:01, 4 July 2023 (CEST)

Diese platte ist vielleicht ein nachträglicher Einfall oder wurde so gedacht, damit weniger Aufwand und Material für die Konstruktion eingesetzt werden konnte.

Die Platte stellt eine starke Oberfläche zur verfügung, worauf die Befestigungsplatte des hydraulischen Zylinder geschweißt werden kann. Damit wird eine mögliche Verformung der Platte 1.2.3 an dem oberen Lenker vermeidet.

Diese Platte ist aber mit höhe warscheinlichkeit, der Der gründ für die Kollisionsstelle zwischen dem oberen Lenker mit Platte 1.1.1 und deren Verformung.

Erste Abmaßpüfung

Part number 1.2.3 -- Hanffaser (talk) 07:31, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Referenzskizze

Part number 1.2.4 -- Hanffaser (talk) 07:32, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Part number 1.2.5 -- Hanffaser (talk) 07:33, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.2.6 -- Hanffaser (talk) 07:34, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Anmerkungen

• Bohrungsmitte bis zur oberen Kante ist 50mm statt 69
• Einige Abmaße zwichen gefaltetem und entfaltetem Modell könnten sich ändern.

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Neues Teil 1.2.6A

Referenzbild neues Teil 1.2.6A

Part number 1.2.7 -- Hanffaser (talk) 16:45, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßpüfung

Neues Teil 1.2.7A

Referenzbild neues Teil 1.2.7A

Part number 1.2.8 -- Hanffaser (talk) 16:46, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßpüfung

Part number 1.2.9 -- Hanffaser (talk) 16:46, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßpüfung

Neues Teil 1.2.9A

Part number 1.2.10 -- Hanffaser (talk) 16:47, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßpüfung

Neues Teil 1.2.10A

Part number 1.2.13 -- Hanffaser (talk) 16:49, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßpüfung

Part number 1.3 -- Hanffaser (talk) 17:12, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.2 -- Hanffaser (talk) 17:27, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.1.11 -- Hanffaser (talk) 14:12, 6 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.1.10 -- Hanffaser (talk) 14:29, 6 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.1.9 -- Hanffaser (talk) 14:32, 6 July 2023 (CEST)

Die Öffnung erlaubt die Montage des hydraulischen Motors.

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 1.1.16 -- Hanffaser (talk) 14:41, 6 July 2023 (CEST)

Stahl Laufrolle

Part number 1.1.12 -- Hanffaser (talk) 12:12, 11 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Versatz 45° ist die Symmetrieachse des hydraulischen Motors

Abmaße der fehlenden Rundplatte

Zuschnitt Knottenblech Rundplatte

Part number 1.1.13 -- Hanffaser (talk) 12:26, 11 July 2023 (CEST)

Erste Abmaßprüfung

Part number 2 -- Hanffaser (talk) 10:39, 12 July 2023 (CEST)

Vertikalversatz

Einen Vertikalversatz kann zwischen einigen Bauteilen der beiden Einzugstrommeln beobachtet werden. In Besprechung mit R. Nowotny wurde erklärt, dass diesen Versatz vermeidet den Zusammenstoß der Zinken und der Messerklinge der Mähscheibe mit den selben Bauteilen der gegenüberstehende Trommel.

Es ist wichtig hier die folgende Frage zu stellen: Ist diese die beste mögliche Lösung?

• Eine nachteil davon ist, dass einige Bauteile, die dieselbe Funktion erfüllen, nicht gleich gebaut sind und damit eine größere Fertigunsaufwand gibt.